this is taken from kittyjoneswordpress.com and we hope it will be useful for people to know about.
Courageous Scottish nurse Joyce Drummond, who made a heartfelt apology to Atos assessment victims, has submitted evidence to the Scottish Parliament Select Committee on Welfare Reform.
I have a correspondence with Joyce, who was the subject of this article: www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nurse-makes-heartfelt-apology-after-1340838
Joyce has submitted evidence to the Scottish Parliament Select Committee on Welfare reform, which she forwarded to me this morning. I have edited where needed, and added to the text to make it easier to read. I’ve included the contents from Joyce’s notes in full.
I knew nothing about Atos when I joined, and left as soon as I realised that there was no way to fight from the inside.
I carried out Incapacity Benefit assessments, these were the forerunner to ESA assessments. I stated at my interview for the job that I believed in social inclusion and social justice.
I went for 4 weeks training in England. The training did not prepare me for what I was expected to do in real life.
The forms that are completed prior to assessment, I have recently found out, are opened by Royal Mail Staff. They are then sent for “scrutiny” where nurses decide whether or not a face to face assessment is required. I was not involved in this and do not know what criteria are used.
It is made clear throughout training and working that we are not nurses- we are disability analysts. Also, we do not carry out ‘medical assessments’ – we carry out ‘functional assessments’. We did not even need a diagnosis to carry out assessments. I had reservations around consent, as we were expected to assess patients – sorry, we didn’t have patients, we had ‘claimants’- who appeared to be under the influence of alcohol or other substances.
We were also consistently told that we did not make benefit decisions. The final decision was made by a DWP decision maker with no medical qualification. If our assessment was overturned at appeal we never knew about it. There was no accountability for assessments overruled.
Assessment starts on the day of your appointment with the HCP reading the form you complete when you applied for benefit. Remember that every single question you are asked is designed to justify ending your claim for ESA and passing you as “fit for work”. That is what Atos are contracted to do by the Government. This is not a genuine assessment, but rather, an opportunity for the DWP to take away your financial support, which you are entitled to.Things that are noted are :-
Did you complete the form yourself
Is the handwriting legible
Are the contents coherent.
These observations are already used in assessing your hand function, your cognitive state and concentration. Next under observation:-
Do the things you have written add up.
Does your medication support your diagnosis.
What tests you have had to confirm diagnosis. For example a diagnosis of sciatica is not accepted unless diagnosed by MRI scan.
Do you have supporting medical evidence from GP or consultants. If you do, it shows that you are able to organise getting this information.
This is also a hidden cost to the NHS. I believe that if ATOS request information there is a charge levied by GP’s. However claimants are expected to source medical evidence themselves. It uses valuable NHS time for medical staff to write supporting statements.
There were no hidden cameras, at least in Glasgow, to watch people arriving for assessment or sitting in waiting room. This may not be true in other areas.
When the HCP has read your form they input some data into the computer system. The assessment properly begins when they call your name in the waiting room. At this point they assess:-
Did you hear your name being called
Did you rise from your chair unaided, did the chair have arms or not
Were you accompanied – this addresses you’re ability to go out alone.
Were you reading a paper while waiting- looks at your concentration.
Did you walk to the assessment room unaided, did you use aids correctly. Did you navigate any obstacles safely- assessing sight.
The HCP will shake your hand when inroducing herself- are you trembling, sweating- signs of anxiety. Again note the constant scrutiny. The HCP will often ask on way to waiting room:-
How long you’ve been waiting- assessing ability to sit- both physically, and looking at your mental state.
How did you get here today- ability to drive, use public transport.
Assessment begins by listing medical conditions/complaints. For each complaint you will be asked:-
How long have you had it, have you seen a specialist
Have you had any tests, what treatments have you had
What’s your current treatment. Have you had any other specialist input eg. physiotherapy, CPN.
The HCP will use lack of specialist input/ hospital admissions to justify assessing your condition as less severe. Medications will be listed and it will be noted if they prescribed or bought. Dates will be checked on boxes to assess compliance with dosage and treatment regime. Any allergies or side-effects should be noted.
A brief note is made of how you feel each condition affects your life
A brief social history will be taken – who you live with, if have you stairs in your house or outside to your house.
Employment history taken – asking when you last worked, what you worked as, reason for leaving employment.
Typical Day – this is the part of the assessment where how you function on a day to day basis is used to justify the HCP decisions. Anything you say here is where you are most likely to fail your assessment. Along side this, the HCP records their observations.
Starting with your sleep pattern, questions are asked around your ability to function.
Lower limb problems- ability to mobilise to shops, around the house, drive, use public transport, dress, shower.
Upper limb- ability to wash, dress, cook, shop, complete ESA form
Vision- did you manage to navigate safely to assessment room.
Hearing- did you hear your name being called in waiting room.
Speech- could the HCP understand you at assessment.
Continence- do you describe incontinence NOT CONTROLLED by pads, medication. Do you mention it’s effects on your life when describing your typical day.
Consciousness- Do you suffer seizures- with loss of continence, possible injury, witnessed, or uncontrolled diabetes.
HCP observations include- how far did you walk to examination room, did you remove your coat independently, did you handle medications without difficulty, did you bend to pick up handbag.
Formal examination consists of simple movements to assess limited function.Things HCP also looks out for:-
Are you well presented, hair done, make-up, eyebrows waxed.
Do you have any pets – this can be linked with ability to bend to feed and walk.
Do you look after someone else – parent or carer- if you do this will be taken as evidence of functioning
Any training, voluntary work, socialising will be used as evidence of functioning.
This is not a comprehensive list, but gives you an idea of how seemingly innocent questions are used to justify HCP decisions.
Mental Health
Learning tasks- Can you use phone, computer, washing machine.
Hazards- Can you safely make tea, if claiming accidents- must have had emergency services eg fire service. Near miss accidents do not count.
Personal Actions
Can you wash, dress, gather evidence for assessment
Manage bills.
Observations made by HCP – appearance and presentation
Coping with assessment interview, abnormal thoughts, hallucinations, confusion.
Coping with change – ability to attend assessment, attend GP or hospital appointments, shopping and socialising.
More HCP observations:-
Appearance, eye contact, rapport, any signs/symptoms that are abnormal mood/thoughts/perceptions. Suicidal thoughts.
Coping with social engagement/appropriateness of behaviour – any inappropriate behaviour must have involved police
Ability to attend assessment, engage with assessor, behave appropriately.
Again this is not an exhaustive list, merely examples.
There are some “special cases”. Off the top of my head, exemptions from assessment include – terminal illness, intravenous chemotherapy treatment and danger to self or others if found fit to work (Regulation 29.)
At present to qualify for ESA you need to score 15 points. This can be a combination of scores from physical and mental health descriptors.
To qualify for the support group you must score 15 points in one section.
As long as you are claiming income – based ESA then your award can be renewed at each assessment, if you gain 15 points.
Contribution ESA lasts for 1 year only, unless you are in the support group. After 1 year in the support group, you may only get income based ESA if your household income is below a certain threshold. It makes no difference how long you have previously paid National Insurance.
For clarity, as far as I know in the real world, doctors carry out medical assessments, nurses carry out nursing assessments and physios carry out physiotherapy assessments. In the world of Atos, each of these separate professions are employed as disability analysts, carrying out functional assessments.
Nurses are employable for these posts if they have been qualified for at least 3 years, are registered to practice with the NMC, and have basic computer skills.
My interview consisted of-
Face to face interview with medical director and nurse team leader.
A written paper assessing a scenario, in my case someone with back pain
A 10 minute basic computer test.
In order to be approved as disability analyst I had to complete 4 weeks Atos disability training, reach a certain standard of assessment reports- as decided by audit of all cases seen (don’t know what criteria was) and finally approval to carry out WCA assessments from the Secretary for Work and Pensions.
In my opinion the money given to Atos and spent on tribunals should be given to NHS GPs. They are best placed to make assessments regarding patients work capability. They have access to all medical reports, past history, specialist input and know their patients. My concern would be what criteria the DWP would impose on GPs risking the doctor/patient relationship. GPs already assess patients for “fit notes”, which have to be submitted to DWP during assessment phase of ESA.
While I worked at Atos, sessional medical staff were being paid £40 per assessment, as far as I am aware. I have no idea of wages of permanent medical staff. Nurses were on a salary, which based on 10 assessments a day (Atos target) equalled around £10 per assessment. These are approximate figures but may give a clue as to why Atos are employing nurses rather than doctors.
Further information:-
Special exemptions from the 15 points criteria: Regulations 29 and 35.
Questions you may be asked at assessment: dwpexamination forum
How to deal with Benefits medical examinations: A Useful Guide to Benefit Claimants when up against ATOS Doctors
More support and helpful advice here: How to deal with Benefits medical examinations
Previous related article: After Atos
List of conditions judged suitable for assessment by neuro trained nurses/any health care profession: –
Prolapsed intervertebral disc
Lumbar nerve root compression
Sciatica
Slipped disc
Lumbar spondylosis
Lumbar spondylolisthesis
Lumbar spondylolysis
Cauda equina syndrome
Spinal stenosis
Peripheral neuropathy
Neuropathy
Drop foot
Meralgia paraesthetica
Cervical spondylosis
Cervical nerve root compression
Cervicalgia
Nerve entrapment syndrome
Carpal tunnel syndrome
Trapped nerve
Paraesthesia
Tingling
Numbness
Brachial plexus injury
Polyneuropathy
Dizziness
Vertigo
Essential Tremor
VWF
Alzheimer’s
List of conditions judged by the DWP and Atos Healthcare as suitable only for assessment by doctors:-
Stroke
Head injury with neuro sequelae
Brain haemorrhage
Sub Arachnoid Haemorrhage
Brain tumour
Acoustic Neuroma
Multiple Sclerosis
Motor Neurone Disease
Parkinson’s disease
TIAs
Bulbar Palsy
Myasthenia Gravis
Muscular Dystrophy
Guillain-Barre Syndrome
Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis
Syringomyelia
Neurofibromatosis
Spina bifida
Polio
Fits (secondary to brain tumour)
Learning difficulties (with physical problems)
Nystagmus
Myelitis
Bells Palsy
Trigeminal Neuralgia
Paraplegia
Quadriplegia
Huntington’s Chorea
Huntington’s Disease
Does it matter to a stroke claimant who conducted the WCA. I read somewhere that it must be a doctor with neological training
Hello Jeffrey. They don’t use doctors or specialists in any condition, it could be a nurse, physiotherapist or occupational therapist normally
Errr… I had a doctor carry out my first assessment – I know his name and his BMA ID in the medical register. Second assessment was carried out by a Charge Nurse who had worked mainly as a Mental Health Nurse, but had worked as a manager in an elderly persons home for 3 years prior to joining ATOS – again, I have verified who they are.
I am about to have a Tribunal hearing with regard to the Charge Nurse’s assessment. The previous The previous Tribunal hearing, several years ago against the doctor, I won outright.
Hi everyone on here,I have read through all your statements totally agree with what your all saying, about 2/3 years ago I put in for pip and recieved it for a short time until I applied for a blue badge then they still it completely,I rang to find out why and they told me I had to appeal against there decisions to which I did and lost that ,now I’ve applied again with the same consultant I will have for the rest of my days and they have turned me down, so how come they can award it one year and then refuse it the next ??? Terry.
I am one of many people who have been stitched up & I am REALLY suffering as a result, the health conditions I have are being exacerbated by the stress of it all. I think there needs to be a class action – I would certainly participate.
Yeh I am totally being ignored and have lost a kidneye transplant thanks to these guys. Let’s get some people together and protest to DWP..
I have needed heart transplant since 2010. Only in March this year 2017 was I assessed for the first time for heart transplant. On my hospital discharge summary it says “Not listed for transplant as patient is overweight and still smoking”. This to me means I need heart transplant but am not at this moment in time being listed for transplant. This is fair judgement except my problem with cigarettes is serious. The whole point is, I understand that in the uk at any moment in time, 30,000 people need a heart transplant yet only 120 of those will receive one and then approximately 20 of those will not survive longer than 2 years. To get to the point I have a “functional assessment” very soon for PIP and am still very fearful of this. Maybe as I approach the building I should try to “Move” as fast fast fast as can over 10 to 19.99 yards then they may just when once inside notice that I might just be about to drop dead. If I need an ambulance (or undertaker) they will then say I did not turn up for my appointment so stop my benefit. I think I will just go quietly to my appointment. I am being serious here, it is not meant to be funny, no laughing matter.
I last had an Atos PIP assessment 2 years ago, scored 4 points, they dismissed my liver failure, cirrhosis as irrelevant, sleep apneoa as indicative of getting plenty of sleep, diabetes hypoglycemia as being controlled with regular blood sugar tests and nerve damage in feet and legs as not affecting my ability to walk. 4 months after that PIP assessment I had my WCA assessment done, this time instead of just supplying them with telephone numbers and contact people I went there with written supporting documentation from GP, consultants, liver clinic etc. and “fortunately” collapsed in the waiting rooms. All facts considered I was put in the ESA support group and told that I should request a re-review of the decision for PIP and take it to Tribunal. Unfortunately it was outside the original month and I was too sick and exhausted to challenge it.
This time 2 years later, I had to apply for PIP again, this time desperate, as ESA support is just not enough to live on and pay for extra costs, rehab, controlled exercise in a controlled environment etc. This time I decided I was going to go all the way if they didn’t score me properly. I researched the categories, saw how I fit into the different categories etc. and got supporting documentation from my old gp, new gp, consultants etc.
So long story short, I went for the assessment,and scored nil points. This is physically impossible.
I spoke to the DWP and requested a copy of the assessor report and the form I submitted.
The report is an absolute travesty of my conditions, their impact and the supporting documentation, there are so many mistakes, errors, omissions, deliberate misstatements and outright lies in this Atos Assessment.
The assessor’s report refers to completing an MSO and MSE test, – these tests were not performed and they contradict my established conditions and medical evidence.
In fact the only physical test I was able to do was to squeeze the assessor’s hand and I was not even able to do that properly, unbeknownst to me I have a problem with my grip, I could never understand why I was struggling to do up buttons, open bottles, jars, cans etc.
This “informal opinion” of hers contradicts my existing medic conditions and completely ignored the supporting documentation from GP, consultants, specialists etc. she then goes on to manufacture evidence, claiming that I do not use any aids in the kitchen, that because I drive car I must therefore have functional grip which then demonstrates that there are no restrictions on my functional grip.
I use an electric can opener in the kitchen, bottle and jar opener, but these were conveniently left out of the report.
I went to the interview by taxi, the assessor did not observe me driving a car, but instead assumes that I have functional grip and based on that assumption then says that this proves that I can prepare a basic meal.
I have liver cirrhosis, I suffer from diabetes, sleep apneoa, portal hypertension, dyslexia, and a huge number of complications. I have been booked off long term sick with exhaustion, fatigue, lethargy and dreadful pain in my abdomen, Most specifically on the form with regards to preparing a meal, I stated that I have to use a microwave because I am too exhausted to prepare a meal, often blacking out or passing out while cooking and have to lie down. GP and hospital letters support this, but instead of identifying my condition, how it impacts me and then checking the supporting evidence and the reason why i struggle to prepare a simple meal, they just completely dismissed this and then claimed that I have function grip evidenced by the assumption that because I drive a car I can prepare meals…
There was no point in submitting supporting documentation or even going to the assessment. This deck is stacked from the moment you apply for PIP they are simply looking for reasons they can refuse you PIP.
The assessor claimed that my complexion was normal – I have liver cirrhosis, brown liver spots all over my face, yellowing of the skin on my feet and legs, with lesions running up and down them, swollen feet and legs, and nerve damage from peripheral neuropathy, according to the assessor I could walk normally without pain and demonstrated this by walking in with a walking stick.
The assessor was 45 minutes later for my appointment, didn’t see me walk in, and it goes without saying when I walked to the assessment room I hobbled with the aid of a walking stick, after the appointment, I had to go to the GP where they found that my leg was infected and I had to treat, I remember thinking I wished it had happened so I could tell the assessor, but actually this is a silver lining as it directly contradicts what the assessor said in their report.
The assessors report also says I spoke in a normal manner, not anxious etc. – I challenge anybody to tell me, that they spoke to the assessor in a normal manner and they were not anxious dealing with someone like that.
Does not look tired – really, this is about the most laughable statement they could make, I have perpetual black rings under my eyes,I average 3-5 hours sleep per day, my throat closes up when I sleep and I have to use a CPAP machine to keep pressure blowing down my throat to be able to breathe at night. Additionally I have liver cirrhosis, which goes hand in hand with exhaustion, fatigue lethargy and the GP letters and hospital letters prove this, additionally they have done independent testing using machines in the respiratory hospital at Papworth, but the assessor’s opinion apparently counts for more than all the other evidence.
I don’t envy anyone having to go through this farce,
Note: I am willing to provide all supporting documentation, my medical records etc. correspondence etc. and be interviewed, or speak to relevant political parties etc. if needed, unfortunately my energy levels are very limited, but I believe there is clear evidence that the assessor has lied and that the DWP have not bothered making their decision on anything other than the assessor’s “report”,
Hello, could anybody help me. I have to go for an ESA assessment on 28 July but I have nobody to take me and I know if I don’t go they will stop my money. I feel sick every minute thinking about it. I live in Blackpool lancs. Please don’t print my surname.
Hello, could anybody help me. I have to go for an ESA assessment on 28 July but I have nobody to take me and I know if I don’t go they will stop my money. I feel sick every minute thinking about it. I live in Blackpool lancs.
I had my invite approx 16th of December they kindly sent the form and I received it Christmas eve. They got it back on the 4th of January, I was over eager and confused with the PIP form as it does not allow you to talk about each illness in detail, eg Epileptic, how does it effect your day. Unknown if outside this happens inside this happens. Sorry feel confused and really upset. Today the 23rd I find i only qualify for the basic rate and they have halved my money
I am convinced the assessors are plugged in overnight to recharge them because they are robots………………………. I have just recently failed PIP and also ESA despite massive heart attack (I nearly died) metal stent inserted-diabetes insulin based recently-under active thyroid-high blood pressure…..suffered an accident on top of all this now also have whip lash and tennis elbow both caused by the accident….also suffering from stress and anxiety(wonder why) On top of all this I also suffer massive side effects of most of the drugs I am on….Muscle ache to the point of me crying-can’t sit/stand/lie for long-nausea-dizzyness-walk as if I’m drunk-SO slow at absolutely everything and on and on it goes.
I got 15 points for PIP just 1 point short of getting some financial help but the biggest surprise was I got 0 (yes friends that’s what I got) points for ESA….My heart problem alone should at least get something but no. On reading the assessment notes I realised that she had written the opposite of what I said to her and as there’s no-one in the room with you there is no proof….It is their word against yours what was said. I AM APPEALING ABSOLUTELY ALL OF IT. They now have me signed off ‘fit for work’ and my day for signing is a Friday, the day I’ve got to see my heart failure nurse….I was told ‘I will alter your signing time, but only for this once and you can do both appointments 1 with your nurse and 1 with me as we need to strike while the iron is hot! If I don’t ‘obey’ I have nothing to live on which means no electricity to store my supply of (not being used yet) insulin in the fridge BEGGARS BELIEF. I have struggled through everything and survived death and all that I’ve suffered in the last 2 years, (only having claimed ESA since my accident in March of this year). What are ‘true’ ill/disabled people supposed to do 🙁 and angry. Jean
I meant to say she (jcp) eventually said my appointment for Friday 25th November would be a telephone appointment as it’s important I go see my heart failure nurse….that helps but what about every other Friday. Me being me I don’t understand why every Friday can’t be a telephone call, if they can do it once then surely they can have repeats just like the prescriptions I have to get to keep me alive. I just don’t understand the ‘hoops’ we have to jump through just to get something to live on, we give more freely to charities than we give to our own sick/disabled people.
I know there are people who pretend to be sick but you can’t pretend to have a heart attack or be insulin dependent or like the other poor suffering people I have read about on this forum, we are sick is that not enough of a problem to be getting on with! This government should go down in history as putting people back to what would have been classed years ago as ‘the poor house’. Sorry to go on but what can you do when there’s nothing you can do….literally!
Jean I quite agree. Had a PIP assessor in my house about 3 weeks ago. Decsion made and sent to me within 2 weeks. By the time she left my house I think I knew more about her than she knew about me. She told me all about her health problems and her problems with ATOS. I was diagnosed with an incurable malignant brain tumour, epilepsy and asthma but according to her appears this has had no affect on my life whatsoever. This conflicts directly with what my consultant, doctors and nurses have to say about my condition. Got 0 points so no PIP. Not sure but I believe she was a “Disability Analyst” which covers all their assessors but I suspect she was one with absolutely no medical qualifications. DWP and ATOS are really pulling a fast one here allowing people with no proper medical qualifications to carry out this work and placing their findings above the evidence of medical staff who know their patients. Mandatory reconsideration underway and have emailed complaint to ATOS but they don’t give a rat’s arse about complaints so long as they are raking in the bucks. This government should be taken to court for wasting taxpayers money on ATOS who are employing people with no medical qualifications. If they do not require medical qualifications to do this work they should be training their own staff in DWP to do it at significantly less cost. They are just trying to show the decision is being based on evidence from an independent company. What utter crap.
ITS LIKE THEY WANT YOU TO LIVE IN PAIN! IT’S JUST WRONG,
i suffer from asthma,got all the inhalers red,blue(they test me and say im fine?) heh? ive got bad back they say the m r i scan say ive worn so of my discs down but that natural..what? i have sleep apnea they give me a machine i wear every night to try and sleep,i take antidepressants they continue to send me to atos and other places that cause me to doubt myself and gives me lower esteem,have pains in my knee’s they say it arthritis, i can’t walk far,i don’t socialise,i don’t have any kinda of help at home,they just push push push,its driving me mad! doctors are supposed to help but all i get is thier advice or some bullshit that doesn’t fit with my symptoms,worst of all my anger is starting to get the better of me! (fed up of being messed around,i can’t work it causes to much pain and suffering) p.s i worked for 20 yrs and this is what i get…shame.i understand there’s people dying and worse off than me but please if your going to help then funkin help!
I have true sympathy for you Bob….being in pain is so so debilitating.
I’ve just received an e-mail from someone called Linda asking me if I’m willing to talk to a German tv about some guy….Was this from you Linda?
hi yes that was from me.
I just wanted to make sure Linda, hope you’re not offended. Regards Jean
From the initial telephone contact to the actual assessment interview I found the whole procedure impersonal, intrusive, & intimidating. Interviewed by a ‘professional nurse’ younger than my granddaughter it seemed a ridiculous concept that she could make any judgement based on a few simple questions, it appeared she had no knowledge of previous medical history even though I pointed out in the computer age she had full access to it. Immediately I felt at a disadvantage having skipped over many facts that were included in the original DLA claims & subsequent re-assessments expecting her to be fully aware of them, apparently not. (Don’t take anything for granted when applying for PIP)
Whatever standards ATOS apply to the interview there is no way on God’s earth someone who does not know you from Adam can see what a person is suffering, their mental state, or even the reliability of the answers given to them. ie, the kitchen at home in a complete mess because unable to clean anything for several days, a half decorated hallway because unable to pay anyone to finish it if the DLA is stopped, had to let the car go for the same reason so now cut-off & housebound. So it has to be assumed the ‘professional nurse’ is also well trained in psychology with full psychic capabilities. The interviewer was disingenuous, unsympathetic, & quite clearly not fully informed, her ability to over-ride decisions made by Consultants, Doctors, & previous claim reviewers is frightening, not had a decent nights sleep for months now & it is getting worse.
The present government is now directly linked (Mrs May & Husband) to ATOS & is part of the policy to interpret everyone claiming benefits as scroungers & a drain on the NHS.
Therefore my personal assessment of the ‘Interview & the Interviewee’ has to be summed up as absolutely nothing to do with helping anyone to live a free & independent life (PIP), the whole purpose of the exercise is targeted at stopping DLA payments.
One question was do I still feel suicidal, of course the answer is no, after all the intrusive upset of having to recall terrible memories of very dark days in my past dignity & self respect seemed of little concern. I am already spiralling in depression wondering how I will or want to survive if they swindle me out of the support & throw me to the wolves.
I have every sympathy with you Cliff.
I have just had my PIP Medical Examination this morning and was surprised that I was assessed by someone with a “Background in nursing” as the article above states that my MS should be worthy of a check by a qualified doctor.
I’ve never trusted ATOS and probably never will and now the waiting game has begun I’m concerned about the whole system. First the medical assessment then the processing of the information put through the computer then the decision makers decision. Whoever does this last part has only got a very loose set of data to work from and can’t possibly be expected to get it right.
Hope it goes your way Cliff, I’m rooting for you!
(Hope you don’t mind me calling you cliff. Mr Sellers didn’t seem right.)
I am currently on the way to an atos medical for pip i had to appeal for this as was told my reasons for missing an eatlier appointment werent good enough(i didnt know of said appointment until they srote and said this) ive had heart surgery in april am waiting to see a back surgeon and have to weqr i continenece pants as i dirty myself a couple of times a day at least as have no co trol over my bowels. I dont see what an assesme t can saywhat my surgeons gp and nurses cant but am quite sure after all the horror stories that i wont pass and will have to appeal again. Thanks for the help from this page and the horror stories from past claimants ill let u all k ow the decision although imnot hopeful.
I had an appointment with atos this sept just gone she wrote personal things down regarding my weight and how many times a week i took a shower and put them in the report of which i have now made a complaint to atos she also missed out evidence and lied saying i had said things i had not said and even though i can still get the daily living i was turned down for mobility thanks to the lying atos worker!!so i am taking it to tribunal !!!
I went for an assessment for pip. The outcome was that I was refused even though I had been awarded high rate care low mobility dla until 2027.
The nurse who assessed me lied. Luckily I had a support worker with me who witnessed what went on.
I have numerous problems one is I suffer from an unstable bladder and can have incontinence. I am 48 yrs old and I still have my monthly periods.
Basically I wear pads for both. It’s embarrassing for me re the incontinence.
I am able to change my pads when I sit on the toilet. According to the assesor because I am able to change my own pads I have no problem with incontinence even though I have had many accidents. I felt I was not allowed any form of dignity by this assessment. Also the nurse who assessed me said that I bent over to pick up my bag. My bag was on my support workers chair. I apparently bent over to touch my toes. I refused to do this because my mobility issues will not allow this. I also showed no signs of depression even though I spent most of the session in tears following the nurses mocking reaction once she discovered I myself use to be a nurse. I apparently walked with normal gait when in fact I was limping due to a very swollen painful left leg. I actually took pictures of my leg to show my daughter. So I do have evidence of this plus two days prior to my assessment I was at the urgent care center because of my leg.
My gp, my specialists were not contacted at all prior to my assessment. These are the people who know me best. Not some nurse sitting in front of me ticking boxes and lying. Or some decision maker who has never met me.
The way I was treated was disgusting and the nurse who assessed me should be struck off for her lying. As a nurse she should be governed by a code of conduct. To act in the best interest of patients. She did not act in my best interest.
The changes the government have made to the benifit system is wrong. It’s cruel and unjust. Too many vulnerable people are going to suffer because of it.
I did in the end get awarded standard pip but only because I disagreed the decision. Still my dr or specialists were not contacted.
I ended up quite poorly after the initial decision and what the nurse had said about me. Poorly to the point I struggled with staying on this earth. Luckily the crisis team helped and a short stay in a crisis house. It was the fact that the nurse had lied. I couldnt deal with this. I was honest and not believed. The nurse was dishonest and was believed.
The system is unfair.
I have a face to face appt next week and your experience has frightened the life out of me you have been treated abominably. There have been times when I have felt suicidal because of pain and I’m beginning to wish I will be in that state for the assessment. What a very sad day it is when after working all ones life we can wish ourself such excruciating pain for fear of being called a liar. Good luck for the future Shelle.
I had similar experiences with atos even though I have backing from GP a top arthritis professor and scans and tests to prove problems the fact I could use walking crutches knee brace and ankle supports to follow the woman from reception to her office inferred I was able to walk 50 meters eventhough distance was no more than 12 feet . I noticed atos will allow recording devices but you must request in advance and they can refuse to perform assessment. If these are genuine why the need for secrecy
i had my assessment today,i have multiple health problems.the assesor,spoke almost in a whisper,despite me constantly asking him to speak louder and telling him i was a bit deaf,.so who knows what i answered to what question,i’m very worried now,how do i complain,
Write to; Atos PIP Customer Relations, PO Box 1006, Stockton-On-Tees, TS19 1UL
I notice that no mental health diagnosis are down as being better judged by specialists, I find that interesting.
i noticed nothing about end stage renal failure
i had assessment that was flawed the nurse missed half the test didnt put anything in mis heard what i said focused on that i drove to assessment she contradicted herself by saying review in a a year
my money was stopped
she is a nurse however not a specialist in my condition she wouldnt of came across renal patients that often and there are many different causes
Dear Steven
Are you sure the person was a real nurse as I understand qualified nurses won’t work for the DWP because as professionals they risk getting into trouble with their governing body if they try to exploit the sick and disabled
i was seen by a nurses assistment for p i p i have parkinsons,is thisl legal
I have a medical with atos on 28/5/15.I have severe psoriasis and stress am so under pressure and my life is a bit of a mess.After reading about complaints about ATOS i fear my condition will get worse if they say my condition should not affect me looking for work.I feel like canceling my appointment but i suppose they would happy about that.No i will go and take a friend along for support.Will let u all know what result was.
Hi I have recently been to atos for a medical assessment for sciatica. I’ve had it for over a year but never made a claim for pip until 14 April 2015. I have found it hard to do stuff most would not. Like getting out of bed where I have to roll out. Walking for to long, bending to pick simple things up. Putting my shoes on and socks getting in the bath even dealing with toilet needs. I have my 10 year old boy who lives with me who helps out. So anyway went to atos and they failed me I got 4 points 2 for washing and bathe and 2 for dressing and undressing so I don’t get how I’ve not scored for other things like the walking. I cant walk more then 20-30 metres because of the pain and discomfort. And the coocking part of it I do microwave meals as its quick and easy. My son bends for me he is my back bless him. So what do I do appeal?? Cheers
hI all. I have jut been asked to go for an appointment with a ‘health professsional’ with this company, when I called up in the morning to inform them I couldn’t make appointment due not having anyone that could accompany me , then phoned up later to confirm as I didn’t feel much confidence after reading numerous bad reviews. I was told that the earlier call I made earlier(taken by a female named lisa at stock on trent call centre) wasn’t recorded so if I didn’t call to get it confirmed I would of been down as a no show! I asked about the complaint procedure,i was told to go on their website and complain from there, only to find their is no complaint PROCEDURE there! anyone know about complaint procedure? or had any dealings with this company?
ATOS is well and thriving. I have just got my appointment to see Atos’s ‘Health Consultant’, not a Doctor or a Nurse but a health consultant, so I am very worried if the person who sees me is competent enough to understand what ailments the doctor has prescribed medications fr me or will he/she just tick no no no in his report to get his bonus for disallowing yet another PIP claimant?
I am told that if my claim is rejected then all my benefits will stop immediately even whilst awaiting my appeal hearing….What am I to do? I have no savings!
@ Doll Sounds very much like the portsmouth Atos assessment building. Quite fun to sit and watch not exactly sas
I recently attended an ATOS assessment which as always I am appealing. I read in the article that the centre the lady worked in did not have cameras. The centre I attended had a guy that followed everyone out approx 2 mins after they left and watched them on the street and had a cigarette.I had to wait 45 minutes before my appointment so witnessed this on a few occasions. He came out after myself but I caught him out as I was waiting for my taxi.
He had a seat at a table when I got taken through where he was sitting reading a book in between following people out. Another enormous waste of money!!!!
I have congenital Hypothyriod so in March2010 my GP reduced my medication but did not check my bloods every 3 months so when I started getting severe headaches I was back and forwards to see the Doctor only to be told it was my weight this went on for 12 months and my job suffered. In March 2011 I had my anual blood test but still suffering the headaches that were getting worse I visited my GP again and begged her to send me for a brain scan at the same time I asked for my blood results to her horror she said “Oh My God ” if you had gone a point lower you would have gone into a Thyroid coma and immediately increased my medication she also check my bllods within 6 weeks. unfortunately the damage had been done as I started having prblem with my eyes a trainee Gp at the surgery told me it was hayfever (he did not have a clue) as I knew there was a link to my Thyroid condition 3 weeks later I started to suffer blurred vision not good for an NHS data input clerk I immediately sought the doctors attention and went to the hospital the doctor signed me unfit for work my employers put me through a vast amount of stress because i could not do the computer work and started to threaten me with contract termination. Sept 2011 I was also diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes which had no connection to the eye problem I returned to work in a different role not using computers in nov 2011, in February 2012 I was very stressed and was signed unfit for work again still under pressure from employers I returned to work 11th May 2012 on the following day i was rushed into hospital with gastric and Gall Bladder prblems along with pneumonia however My eldest sibling had been diagnosed with cancer in the April so the stress had made me very ill unfortunately my sibling passed away sept 2012 and then I was calle to a meeting for termination of employment 1st November 2012.
On Saturday 10th November I attended a fit for work assessment with Atos on behalf of DWP for which I was totally distressed about having just lost my job and my sibling 5 weeks prior to this. as declared unfit for work by both the hospital and GP they did not accept my medical condition and had already given me zero points before I entered the room with my son supporting me. My main concern was they totally ignored how distressed i was throughout the assessment and made a judgement on physical ability rather than a medical capabilty for all they knew I could have been having a nervous breakdown. I did give them the evidence they requested as It was already available along with the letter of termination received that very morning. I had to appeal against the decision and take it to Tribunal which also went against me I have recentl had the gall bladder removed after a 2 year wait and I have not received a penny from DWP since August 2013 they are now telling me that I should be able to claim JSA but I am still classed as unfit for employment so where does that leave me as I find that it is putting a very big strain on my marriage due to finances.
I had my medical on friday at 3.20.
Arrived got there sat down only 15 mins later this lady comes out tells me that they cant see me today as i have had resritcted blood flow to the brain !! TIA
I asked why they did not inform me or get the doctor who can do my medical there b4 i attended In a state as i have taken all meds to even get me out the house was crying shaking and was sick by the time i arrived home.
Now have to wait 2 weeks SHE SAYS for another appointment to get the doctor there to do my medical….
To be honest why dident they look b4 hand who they are seeing on the day as they could have rang me Both home and mobil numbers were had …
Today im in a flare as i also have fibro and many other conditions feelng very ill and dont think i can cope with this any more now !
what happens if i dont turn up or who can i make a complaint to ?
Thks for reading Allison x
This is a test E-mail Sylvia
ATOS are still involved with ESA medicals and assessments, today 23/04/14 I received ESA50 to be completed and returned to ATOS Healthcare, Newcastle…So we are still not yet rid of them!!!
Atos are still doing work for DWP god help us.
hi yes atos are ive just recived an appointment but I sent my form back 15 monthes ago I have metal health problems im worried sick they will put me on jobseekers.
I have a rare disease called myhestinia gravies I have been asessed by a some foreign guy who as far as I can tell can’t speak English very good who said I was fit for unlimited work the important thing to note is that when people vote Tory they vote for satan whith all the evil and deciept that comes with it Cameron is just another manifestation of thatcher Atos=Tosa=Cameron !!!!
Agree – this condem govt is the biggest benefit cheat! As soon as its assessments are overturned by genuinely disabled claimants – it changes & moves the medical goalposts to make it appear that there’s nithing wrong wuth you, & that your ability to work is not limited!!! DWP – CONDEM GOVT – YOU ARE CHEATS AND LIARS! HOW MANY HAVE NOW COMMITTED SUICIDE BECAUSE OF YOU ?!?!? I TRIED & FAILED.
I have twice and failed both tmes….. its hard when you have an illness let alone go through this crap again and again I see my job centre lady and she even said im unfit for work so why send me for medicals all the time and then put me in a work support thing….. Sometimes i cant even get out of bed let alone dress i have a carer and sometime being pulled about is so painful i just say leave me in my jim jams . Live in them Order them online with the help of my daughter and they get delivered next door as i cant cope with unexpected knocks at the door ….. My daughter even went out and bought me clothes for my so called medical on friday and all to be told they cant see me !
I did attend my atos appointment at five ways center Birmingham with Dr RAKA BANERJE . This doctor has fulseafied the report completly and claimed to have done examinations that she never did and withheld all surporting medical evidence (hospital , doctors , phycoligist reports) from that examination, I have abtained a copy of her report after 6 calls to the Benifit center requesting them . I have requested for DR RAKA BANERJEE’S GMC reference number and quilfithcations but atos refuse to give them , it dose not matter what your illness is. Or if you prove it they are set up to take your only means of income while in ill health regardless , even if it means feudulently , I now am pursuing to have this doctor reported to the GMC and publicly show the corruption at ATOS Heath care service. I advice anyone attending appointments there to tape recorded you appiontments weather in secret or telling them it’s your only way of taking minuets if you have learning difficultys and to request a copy of your medical report and the decision makers notes and points and any evidence used to support you claim. And of course Appeal!!!! Appeal Appeal and I recommended in light of the above you strongly avoid DR RAKA BANERJEE .
Hi Kalkat,
I can’t give you the website don’t think it would be allowed. but if you type in the search. how to check a doctor’s registration. The General Medical Council will come up click on there web page. And the page Registered Medical Practitioners. At the bottom of that page it says, List of Registered Medical Practitioners. Click on the link. And put the name in the search. It should give you the number.
Best wishes and Good Luck
Hi Kalkat have just been assessed by that Doctor and the lies she has put down in the medical is unbelievable.I had her for a assessment in 2006 and went for appeal and won that but because of all the government changes they have made it more difficult for you win a appeal.
What i did find out that in 2013 she was involved with the death of a young girl in Sandwell NHS Hospital and she got away with that, this was reported in the Mail news paper. How does the government employ lier’s to do these assessments. What i also found that the DHSS also do what they like when you have asked for assessor to phone to talk about the lies this doctor has wrote down what do they do re-assess you without you they just do not care at all .
These people are a law on to them selves, i am still waiting for your local MP Mr Javid to reply to two emails that i have sent him. hope you have luck with your clam Henry
I failed to attend my atos work Assessment due to being ill with a flu virus. I wrote alerting them my reason why I didn’t attend.On reviving a letter regarding. my work assessment I was told that my benefit will cease 30 days from the letter dated. Could you pleese can you give me some info and other stats on what has seen my life turned upside down currently on Inc All
Inc Will All.I Am also in receipt of High Rate Mob & Middle Rate care component. .( WHICH IS PLACED AS INDEFINITE) BUT with being advised to ask for a mandatory Reconsideration In to my reason why I harden attend work assessment due to. Being beded down with a flu virus .In which I had already written as to why I couldn’t attend But on writing the mandatory reconsideration I was advised by DHS worker when I had just received there letter stating I didn.’t give a valid enough reason…This time I wrote why again only this tme I was advised to put it in writing and in morep detail of which I have done .Now I’m waiting on a decision from them to see if they have reconciddesired their decision .I write to your in the hope I can be given somekind of positive info on this considstation process I find myself. having to fight for another appointment Atos work assessment that I will attend barring Any illness.I fear I’ve lossed. my right to my Inca all and severe disability income support and I’m still at a LOSS AS TO HOE I CAN BE TOLD I WILL LOSS MY BENEFIT DUE TO BEING ILL AN UNABLE TO ATTEND THE SAID WORK ASSESSMENT.NOW I FEAR I WILL LOSS MY SKA NGOS OF THIS INJUSTICE OTHEY HAVE PLACED UPON ME .I AM AT AN ALL TIME LOW. .FEELING STRESSED .WORRIED SICK I FEEL. I PRAY AND HOPE YOU CAN GIVE ME ADVICE ON WHERE I STAND .THIS IS A CHRISTMAS I WON’T TO FORGET COS OF AMOS DECISION ..SHAME ON ATOS
John, ……I know this post is not recent, but, just wondering if you sent your letter Recorded Delivery? I always do when writing to Atos ( had to send three letters last year). You have proof of delivery which you can track on line. Another good move is to send a copy ( again recorded delivery) to Job Centre. If you are unable to do this get a relative or friend to do this. Would like to know what the outcome was.
Thank you for the info provided, I was very worried about an upcoming assessment but you have made me less so!
My wife has had 2 piturity tumors and it looks like she has another. She was able to clam dla for thefirst tumor but was forced back to work after 9 mths, the second tumor she could not get dla???? but could get sick or esa, after 12 mths she was asked to attend an atos assesment.The doc did not know about this type of tumor and set about giving here different tasks to do.ie touch your nose turn your head, then asked to bend and touch here toe,s which she could not do by bending but could if she knelt down. what the hell as that got to do with a piturity tumor.any way she was sent back to work and now she has had news today that the tumor might be back, I want to take this lot to the cleaners,I feel let down by the system,I work 80/90 hrs a week and my wife cant get any support so has to work. ATOS You are a disgrace…
I’ve just had to fill out a form sent from atos, after reading all the reviews from different sites, I’m very worried, I have multipul mental health conditions and broke both legs, 3 vertebrae and my neck in an accident (due to mental health) and very limited in my abilities, I’m also on DLA which was stopped claiming I have ‘mild discomfort’ I have got that back after appeal, the possibility of having to appeal again is very stressful, your right Carole, shame on the Tories, only look after their own and throw us into the pits.
Really useful information as I am about to enter the world of ATOS with my son who has suffered a brain injury at the age of 13 and is now expected to be assessed . Shame on you Tory government
i agree totally
but remember this was also passed by the labour gov pre election